David Walker is busy . He ’s co - writingNaomi , a newfangled high - profile series from DC Comics , along with Brian Michael Bendis and artist Jamal Campbell . He ’s also work on on Image Comics ’ enthusiastically receivedBitter Root with co - writer Chuck Brownand artist Sanford Greene . But , despite the fact that the oldtimer author has worked with one of the Big Two and the braggart electrical outlet for creator - owned comic , Walker ’s announced his plucky move yet : launching a ego - publish company .
A few workweek back , I spoke with Walker and Bendis about Naomi , the splashy new claim that ’s part ofBendis ’ young person - centric Wonder Comics opening move . Shortly after that , Walker announce the debut of Solid Comix , a speculation where he ’s going to be ego - publishing two new series tight to his heart . I yell Walker again to speak about this new path , and the interview that follow is drawn from both conversations .
io9 : Your Modern graphical - novel biography of Frederick Douglass has been class in the qualification . I require to start by ask if you learned anything about him that you did n’t already know , because when we ’re uprise up , we get an well digestible version of disgraceful diachronic figures .
Walker : Oh , man . You hit the nail on the head word . A mint of it is that American history , in universal , just tends to be show as well digestible , especially when it comes to smuggled folks . And so , in condition of Frederick Douglass , honestly , just about everything I memorize during enquiry felt unused . I make love the most canonical stuff and nonsense : OK , he was a striver … and he escaped from slavery … and he was a speaker and a author . That ’s it .
When I was younger , I ’d understand his first autobiography , but I ’d forgotten a lot of it because it had been 20 , 30 years ago . So , everything was very center - scuttle to me . Especially , you know , when I started getting to some of the deeper stuff , like his family relationship with Abraham Lincoln , John Brown , and other key diachronic bod . That all really took me by surprisal . I always tell multitude my favorite figure of procrastination is enquiry , and so , when I was research his relationship with John Brown , I kind of went down the John Brown coney hole and really started understanding John Brown ’s role in both abolitionism , but also the preludes to Civil War and the Missouri Compromise — all these form of things . And it was just endlessly captivating to me , to the point that I ’m still read all this sort of material . There ’s still a stack of books I ’m going through to learn myself and assay to learn more .
io9 : What ’s interesting about Bitter Root , Frederick Douglass , and the other piece of work that you ’re set up out now is that you ’re dealing with the black experience in America in histories that are both real and fictional . Is there a thrust - and - pull , give - and - take ? Does one flow the other ?
Walker : Well , there ’s so many stories that have n’t been told , peculiarly when it comes to inglorious folk and the black experience in America . Going back to Frederick Douglass , as I was doing all this inquiry , I learned about all these other abolitionists whose names started coming up I had never heard of before . A more contemporary equivalent would be when we talk about the Civil Rights Movement of the ‘ 50s and ‘ 60s , and mostly talk about Martin Luther King , Jr. Maybe we ’ll mentionRosa Parks …
io9 : But nobody talks aboutBayard Rustin .
Walker : Nobody tattle about Bayard Rustin , at all . Or A. Phillip Randolph or even Ralph Abernathy . The names are … it ’s endless . Fannie Lou Hamer . It ’s that variety of matter . All these account need to be say . And I recollect that if we do n’t know them , if we do n’t understand in our history , then we ’re really doing a ill service , not only to the past , but we ’re not help ourselves into the hereafter .
We really need to read our history because the less you know , the more uncomplete you are . Frederick Douglass talked about this . He did n’t have sex who his founder was . He did n’t know where in Africa he came from . He was always talking about this void within him , this incompleteness , and I think we all have that even if we do n’t inevitably take in we have that . And it come back to what I talk about in terms of representation and feeling a sense of belong . Growing up as a Thomas Kyd , all my favorite superheroes , all my favorite laughable record book , the huge majority of them were white guy wire .
And it ’s not to say there ’s anything wrong with that , but , then you have to look at what the other side of the equation is . What it is that you ’re getting ? And if you ’re a disgraceful person , or a person of color , or a woman , what are the representations that you ’re seeing ? And are they all problematic if they subsist at all ? And I just feel like , I do n’t require other unseasoned people to go through what I go through when I was immature . Now I ’m an quondam mankind , and I ’d just like to see thing change , a little bit .
io9 : How do you and Chuck Brown indite something fictional like Bitter Root and still have that truth be at the core of it , without having it feel like a cliche ?
Walker : Sometimes I consider everything is a cliché . How to not make it feel like a cliché — a lot of that is check by your audience , you know ? Because , it ’s just the matter of , “ Is it a first - degree cliché ? Or a third - level cliché ? ” You get laid ?
But for me , a lot of it comes down to the fibre and trying to get your characters to have a ring of trueness and authenticity to them . With Bitter Root , it was Chuck and I seat down and spill about this and saying , “ Okay , we ’ve get this character , but there needs to be more to this case than what ’s on the surface . ” We have the graphic symbol Blink , and , you know , she ’s a hero but there needs to be more than the fact that she ’s just a cool fighter . And I said , “ Well , it ’s 1924 . This would n’t be acceptable for her to be a fighter . ” This is how society was , so , let ’s have her be really good at it , but have nobody wants her to do it , you know ? She ’s the only one who want to do it . And decent there , that start out your minelaying of a little act of accuracy .
Black folks too often — when we ’re represented in pop acculturation — we’re not represent as human beings . We ’re sort of embassador of the wash . And slightly clichéd , in that regard . So , to me , it was just important to try and give all these part some semblance of humanity .
io9 : What have you been love in terms of oeuvre that you feel adds dimensionality to representation of black fiber ?
Walker : One of the last thing that really got me excited wasEzra Clayton Daniel ’s book Upgrade Soul . it ’s been out for a little while now and I was really fortunate in that I read that book a duo years back , when he first finished it . And I depend at that and think there ’s some great sinister role in there , and they ’re blemished and some of them are kind of immorality and some of them are kind of good , but I love that record book so much . And it ’s about trading in your manhood , both physically and I hazard on a spiritual level — and I absolutely fuck that book .
io9 : The most surprising thing about your career right now is the announcement of Solid Comix , a new imprint where you ’re work to be self - publishing your own workplace . You ’re a man whose published many a comic at this point and you certainly could have set these projection up elsewhere , including Image where Divine have full editorial ascendancy . You ego - published Bad - Azz Mofo Magazine for many old age but why do these new comedian projection by yourself from soup to nuts ?
Walker : Well , that ’s a really good question . I think the Image model is great and obviously , I ’m doing Bitter Root with Image and I hope to do more projects through Image . But not every single project make sense to do with them . And if it does n’t make sense to do it with Image , it almost does n’t make sense to do with any other publisher .
When I say it does n’t make much gumption to do it with Image , it ’s because it ’s almost like there ’s two comic Holy Writ securities industry . Right ? The verbatim market , the retailers , where the fans go , they regulate their stuff through Diamond … we all make out that market . But then there ’s that other market where you ’re going to conventions where you have a fan base and are capable to sell stuff online . you could make some money doing that sort of stuff but the doorstep are n’t as high if you ’re going to a newspaper publisher like Image . You do n’t have to care about the pre - orders from Diamond .
Fighting for ledge space at the retailers is really crucial . Because there ’s just not a mess of it . Even if you eliminate Marvel and DC from the equating , you ’re still contend with a ton of publishers and a ton of titles . persona or Boom or Dynamite or Dark Horse , Action Lab , Vault , Lion Forge , so many of them ! They ’re all fighting for that same actual estate of the realm . If you do n’t have estimable sale for whatever reason — more than a thousand units — most publishing firm are going to depend at that leger as a turkey . The reality is there ’s publishers who ca n’t even move a thousand social unit a deed of conveyance .
I ’ve been doing conventions for years and selling my own volume at them . Why not just trade the Holy Writ where they ’re selling anyway ? It ’s not so much about excrete the middleman ; it ’s recognizing that you ’re in the fiscal hold of whatever publishing house you ’re working with . When a script does n’t betray , it is n’t necessarily through any fault of yours or their ’s . It just make more sense with certain key projects to just put them out myself .
io9 : I see the TV that you did around the announcement and one of the thing that was interesting to me is you ’re seeing your Solid Comix turn as an knowledgeable , hand - sold product . Not quite a gatherer ’s item , but something that is the most personal way you’re able to deliver stories to readers . Do I have that right ?
Walker : Yes , you do . actually . It ’s kind of interesting because it ’s like … “Wow , I guess I did say it that path . ”
You put your heart and soul into a comedian . It does n’t matter if it something you own or if it ’s work - for - hire , but you put all this energy into it . To see it not trade well — for a whole host of reason that do n’t needs have anything to do with calibre — is hard .
It has to do , again , with that valuable veridical estate space on the shelves at every retailer in the country . And it has to deal with , you make out , how much it costs to promote in Diamond . It has to do with how much masses would just rather go into the stores on Wednesday and purchase ex - Men , or Batman , versus your little indie title . And it ’s kind of heartbreaking . You put all this prison term and energy into a script , and it does n’t needfully sell . And it ’s not a reflection of you or a full reflexion of the industriousness ; it ’s just a mirror image of all these uncanny factors that coalesce .
But you may take that same book and go to a convention , whether it ’s a bigger convention like Emerald City or Wonder Con , or a small event like Black Comics Fest . you may meet hoi polloi , babble out to them , engage with them , and you may trade your wares , you know ? And there ’s part of me that really likes that . I overlook doing that from the old day . mayhap I ’ll get back into it and be like , “ I ’m too old for this ” …
These undertaking that I ’m doing through Solid , it ’s not like they were disdain by any publishers . In fact , without enjoin which labor or character or publisher , two of the four rule book in evolution right now were extend publication deal . But I looked at some of the specifics of the publication deals and what was going on with the IP rights and the threshold of units that would have to be sell before revenue was being generated by me and my team , and I was just like … “ Yeah , this does n’t make sense . ” I ’m not seeing that sure publisher are able to move those sort of units .
That ’s another reality of the industry : Even if it ’s creator - have , right , you have to move a certain number of unit just to break even on the price of production . Then you have to move a certain amount of units before you go into any sort of profit royalty of anything like that . And then on top of that , if you want to betray your product at a formula , or even through your internet site , you ’ve got to corrupt that from the publisher . And sometimes that ’s just not the most cost effective agency to do things .
There comes a time where it ’s like , “ Okay , well , look a sec . Does it make horse sense to do this book through one of them when I can do it on my own ? ” Go to Kickstarter , borrow some money from a couple of key supporter and do a print run that ’s exit to meet the motive as I project them … and again , I may strike this is n’t most as fun as it was 25 geezerhood ago . But I had to give it a dig .
io9 : I have friends who own main bookstores and they ’ve always lecture about the importance of hand - selling sure leger . You have to have the somebody who knows the books and the same person who be intimate the customer . There ’s a tragedy when a book ca n’t find its reader . There could be somebody out there for whom One autumn is just perfect for , but , you have it away , if you went to the direct market and did n’t find anybody , it ’d be a damn shame .
Walker : There ’s part of me that ’s like , “ Man , you done lose your idea . ” I was recall that today because we ’re prepping the first Kickstarter and I beat two friends help me with it . But it ’s like , “ This is all on you , man . ” And there was a moment this good afternoon where I was like , “ What am I doing ? ” And I baffle over it . rent ’s just move frontwards and do this affair .
io9 : You mentioned Kickstarter . How are you approaching crowdfunding ? You have people like Spike Troutman who runs Iron Circus , and she ’s done astonishing work with crowdfunding . Are you learning from what she ’s done ? What happens if you do n’t meet the backing goals ?
Walker : These are all good questions . So , I care to narrate the great unwashed that I was the one who identify Spike . I ’ve known Spike for pushing up on 20 years . Amazing natural endowment . I met her either at APE or San Diego , plausibly in the previous ‘ 90s , early 2000s , and I tried to hire her . Did n’t have a very freehanded budget . And I was like , “ I want to hire you , ” and she ’s like , “ Okay , here ’s my rate . ” And I was like , “ Oh ! I ca n’t give you . ” And she ’s like , “ Well , I ’m not lowering my charge per unit . ” I knew in that moment that , someday , I ’ll belike go to her for a job . She ’s get an unbelievable business sense . So yeah , it ’s odd because I have n’t talked to her in about a yr , but , every time I see her at a convention , I pick her brain about Kickstarter . Cal McDonald was another person I talked to . Tameeka Stotts . Greg Rucka . Greg Pak . So , I had been looking at what other people do . And none of that prepares you , you make out ? I realize there ’s a sealed amount of flying by the hind end of my pants .
And I also bring in , if it fails , if we do n’t attain our goal , we just do it again . And I rethink the strategy . I budget for a lower mark run . And here ’s the thing , too — this is really essential — I have money and I am putting money into this . I ’m obviously not putting money into the Kickstarter because you ca n’t do that . I just sent [ artist ] Sean [ Damien Hill ] money today to cover the art he ’s doing on The Hated . There is sort of a backup plan , but I ’m not going to do the all - or - nothing . I ’m not going to put my money into this just because it ’s not workable . And if it does n’t work out , the realism is I ’ll do something . Because that ’s sort of how I am . This did n’t work ? Okay . I ’m going to sit here in the corner and squall for a twosome day . And then I ’m going to move on . But again , it ’s not that I could n’t determine a publishing company to handle any of these projects that I ’m doing — because I could . I ’m questioning the mainstream securities industry as it exists , and the berth it leaves for indie folks . I ’m working for DC and I ’ve worked for Marvel and the mainstream — but that ’s not my only goal .
io9 : It just come across me how it is very reminiscent of Sweet Sweetback ’s Baadasssss Song . Melvin Van Peebles went outside of studio and he bootstrapped something that no studio apartment would greenlight or finance back in the day . And that start a whole new niche of cinema . That probably speak to your proclivities in more ways than one .
Walker : Yeah . And even with comics , you look at Brother Man . I ’ve know Dawud and Guy since Brother Man was originally coming out and they were doing mirthful strip in Rap Pages Magazine . I ’m a huge rooter of their work and really inspired by them . And they ’re still doing that .
I went into the comic shop yesterday . It was Wednesday . And there ’s some great stuff that I bought , but also a lot of poppycock I knew was n’t on the shelf . Again , not the fault of a publisher , per se — or a retailer , or the distribution person . Just , this is n’t working out . And if a title of respect does n’t trade well by the first or 2d issue , retailer are ordering less . It amazes me how many fans still do n’t read the conception of the pre - order . But I ca n’t say that in a disparaging way , because there are time I ’m shamed of that , too . I ’ll walk into a stock and be like , “ Oh . This is out ? I imply to pre - grade this . ” But I did n’t . gratefully , it ’s here .
io9 : Same thing happen in video games . The pushing to preorder puts the encumbrance on the consumer . If comics were unlike , we would n’t all have to be lather people to pre - say a book . We could permit them to make their own decision in the release windowpane , but thing do n’t exploit like that anymore . What ’s interesting about what you ’re doing with Solid is that it ’s an experiment in minute - cast and properly - sizing . You ’re trying to find “ what ’s the exact amount of these I can print to contact out to people who require to read it , be profitable , and make it self - sustaining ? ” And what does a David Walker fan desire to translate ? Are these conception where you thought , “ I can sell a cowpuncher comical with a black distaff lead to this specific audience because they do n’t have that and I can give it to them . ”
Walker : I ’d like to say I thought that clearly ! [ laughs ] There is a certain amount of that . I was at the Keystone Comic - Con in Philly last year and there was a strong pro wrestling mien . And I realized there ’s some wrestling podcasts I listen to and the great unwashed I watch on social media and I was like , “ There ’s a lot of pro - wrestling fan who are comic book fans . ” Boom is doing their WWE laughable and that ’s a self-colored Word . There ’s an indie Holy Scripture out there ring Headlock .
And I ’m like , “ These are all great book of account , but not what Brett and I are doing on One evenfall … ” We ’ve got something in judgment we desire to do . With The Hated , that ’s the ultimate labor movement of love , more than any of the other projects I ’m doing . Sean was the right creative person at the right sentence ; it took me a tenacious metre to find somebody I thought would do justice to this book . And with that , I was like , “ Well , if this is go to flunk ? have it neglect because I did it all faulty , ” as opposed to finding someone who want to write it but does n’t get hold its groove there and all the books are sitting in a warehouse .
io9 : Can you talk in broad strokes about what you ’re examine to do with Solid and what you did with BAMF ? What ’s alter in term of the business of self - publishing that ’s made it easier or harder for you ?
pedestrian : I want to endeavor to publish domestically and if I can , I need to do it as close to abode as humanly potential . Because part of being a modest business individual is render to support other businesses around you , if you’re able to . Does n’t always make sensation to do that but sometimes it does .
In the old days — the ‘ 90s into the former 2000s — if you wanted to publish something , you had to go to an offset pressman and you had to do a minimal photographic print test of a thousand . Minimum . And then you had to pay for the shipping . You might not know for sure if you were going to move a thousand . But you had to have a thousand . Now the unspoilt affair was , back in those Clarence Shepard Day Jr. , when I was doing Bad - Azz Mofo , that was a magazine with a little bit of comics and amusing tie in stuff in it . You had Tower Records , Tower Books , and Borders . Virgin Megastores was still around and there was a long ton of powder store shops and newspaper stand . So there was a whole market that ’s woefully belong aside . But at the same fourth dimension , you do n’t have to do that minimum print rill of a thousand now .
A muckle of position have really good optical maser printers and the photographic print - on - demand matter has made it possible to do shorter print ravel . In some case , you’re able to get a full - color mag or mirthful now for peradventure two dollars a unit — mayhap more — which is far less than what a full - color first would have cost you 15 , 20 years ago . So all that has modify .
I ’ve been following Kickstarter for years now , and part of me was like , “ Oh , do I really want to do this ? I do n’t know , it seems like such arduous work . ” But the more metre I spend in funnies — because I never cerebrate too in earnest about self - publishing — I think about maybe bringing Bad - Azz Mofo back in some capacity . But the more time I spent in comics , the more time I was doing in conventions and look at sure titles I had written not perform well … and just go , “ Okay , well — I enjoy this medium and I need to do some clobber but I ’m going to have to play by that secondary set of rules . ” If you desire to be a musician or period of play basketball , you’re able to play basketball . Go down to the local park or playground or gym and get a game of pick up any time . You want to be a instrumentalist , you may get an instrument and play and go to an capable mic . You do n’t have to be in a big band that ’s touring all over the world or make it on a pro ballock team to do the things that you love . And that’s … at the end of the day , that ’s kind of what I realise . I love comics , but , what part of comic do I love ? And you get laid , it ’s large to ferment for Marvel , DC — it ’s not the be - all , end - all for me .
io9 : countenance ’s blab out about the book themselves , One Fall and The Hated .
pedestrian : One spill is a Scripture I ’m doing with Brett Weldele , who ’s an old friend of mine . We ’ve been say this we should do a book together over 15 years . This last time , Brett say , “ I want to do a wrestling comic , but I do n’t require it to be like other hand-to-hand struggle comic . I need to lean into the true , over - the - top nature of the backstory of wrestling . ”
I was like , “ Ooh ! ” Suddenly that becomes entrancing to me , right ? And then I said , “ Well , when you talk about the backstory , are you talking — how laughable or over the top or preposterous do you require to get ? ” So , as an example , I read the Undertaker purportedly has come back from the deadened before but we all know that he really has n’t . “ No , that ’s what I need to run into . ” Okay , so , mightily there I said , ‘ How about if our lead character is a bozo who , in some capacity we have n’t picture out yet , observe coming back from the dead ? ” And Brett was like , “ Okay , let ’s do it . ”
We ’re both really big fan of kung fu picture show and samurai moving-picture show and grindhouse films so we initiate speak about motion-picture show like Master of the Flying Guillotine . And then we start verbalise about Italian using picture like 1990 : The Bronx warrior , and Warlords of the Wasteland . Enzo Castellari and directors like that . And we ’re like,“Yeah , let ’s just throw all those ingredient into a pot and see what hap . ” And the Florida key was we did n’t throw it into a very with child potty , so , if it did n’t taste skilful we did n’t waste all our ingredients . And so we started to put together a taradiddle , and the story of One Fall is basically set in a world where professional hand-to-hand struggle is the world ’s favorite interest . It is the most popular mutant in the world and it ’s not the pre - written thing we imagine of as professional rassling . The way of life grapple treats itself as being real is how real it is in this public .
io9 : It ’s 100 percent kayfabe 24/7 .
Walker : just . To the extent where the President of the United States is an antique - professional grappler . And all of the soft drinks are wrestling - themed . It ’s taking some of the more obscure thing from our world — you sleep together , like , we ’ve actually had elected officials who were pro grappler . And then throwing the supernatural into the mixture . Our lead grapheme is Jimmy King , a bozo named the Resurrector . He ’s a third generation wrestler , the latest soul in his family to inherit the family whammy : every fourth dimension he croak , he occur back to life . It was his dad ’s gubbins , it was his grandpa ’s gimmick . And at some point , he knows he ’ll die and it will be for real . It ’ll last and he wo n’t descend back from the grave .
Then the hex is passed on to one of his children . And so a lot of it is about him grip with — no pun intended — his family curse , but also shell out with , “ Can I be more in my life history ? Can I do more with my life ? How can I make something good for my children ? ” That form of stuff . And then we inclose a ridiculous form of characters around him .
io9 : And The Hated seems like it ’s on the consummate polar end of the spectrum , tonally .
Walker : Yes . The Hated is just a unbent western . No supernatural element to it . It ’s loosely based on a screenplay I write about 25 class ago , maybe 30 years ago . It have place after the Civil War , and the main eccentric is Araminta Free , a woman who was a runaway slave and a director on the underground railroad . She ’s been a spy for the Union USA , too , so , she ’s essentially Harriet Tubman meets Foxy Brown . ( That is actually Harriet Tubman ’s nativity name . Araminta . ) The series takes place after the Civil War , when she ’s become a bounty hunting watch . She specializes in is two things : one is bring Confederate war criminals to Justice Department ; the other is tracking down lost family appendage of ex-husband - slaves and reuniting those families . And so this news report is what I ’m hop-skip to be the first of multiple graphic novels , about her go up against some outmoded - Confederate war criminals as she looks for her child who were sold away when she was younger , before she escaped . And then getting caught in very traditional beneficial guy versus spoilt guy wire Western conflict .
I ’m looking at it as a rehabilitation of the Western . I do n’t want to liken it to Django Unchained for a whole host of reasons , but the Western was this mythological folklore we ’ve all been weaned on in some electrical capacity , but it ’s left a lot out . It ’s left women out , it ’s left black folk out , and I was like , “ Alright . ” And everyone will evidence you , western do n’t sell . That ’s because they ’re always the same old Western .
I was 21 when I wrote it originally and I wanted to see a Western with nothing but black cowboys , gunslingers , and felon . Now that I ’m 50 what I really want to see is a badass woman who is a bounteousness hunter who can confound down with any man . And again , she ’s a cross between Harriet Tubman and Stagecoach Mary , who was a real person . And then Foxy Brown .
Sean and I had been developing it for a while , even doing concept art . There was one publisher in particular who really want it . And I was just like , “ You know , this pile ’s not that safe . ” If I sign with you , and you publish this script and it does n’t go well , for all the reasons we ’ve talk about earlier — from sales to retailers not getting it — I’m going to be really pissed . I know I can move this book , because I have it away this thing and I know citizenry who will love it . And they ’re going to say their supporter , and they ’re give out to tell their friends , and it might be a dull burn , you know ? That ’s the other thing , too . I spell this book for Marvel called Nighthawk .
io9 : I am well mindful of it , David
Walker : I know you ’re well aware . But Nighthawk was a turkey in terms of gross revenue .
io9 : You bled for that Bible , though .
Walker : I did . And the affair is , now it has this life of its own , this cult following . But it also has a limited lifespan because the chances of Marvel keeping that in print are slim to none . The only room that book will ever delay in print once they run through the initial however - many - they - printed - up , is if that character have a TV show or some wad . I ca n’t fault Marvel for doing that . These big publishers , they ’re not set up for anything to have a ho-hum burn and to regain a life of its own . And that , as a Divine , that ’s heartbreaking . It ’s heartrending for a study - for - hire job you did , it feels ten thousand times worse when it ’s a creator - owned Koran . When you ’re spend 10 bucks a unit to buy these books from this newspaper publisher to then hale them across country and sell them at conventions , you might as well just do it yourself .
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